Jess

TRUE STORY. except your hair looked a little better.

Jess

Glad we’re slowly moving towards the same page! Dating & Hookup is definitely about inclusion, instead of exclusion and manipulation. While still ultimately staying true to yourself and your standards, of course. But you’d be surprised by how women’s standards shift, along with the new things they learn from their relationships with unexpected dah guys.

How can we cultivate our dahs thoughtfully and earnestly without “mistaking the map for the territory?” We’re all trying, I promise. One of the ongoing goals is to learn how to “do” Dating & Hookup better, for all involved. Let’s call it a work in progress.

I would very much like to tell you those stories. In the book, my friend! In the book

Jess

So much to say, of course! Love the debate happening here. But since Becky’s taking on some of the big ideas in her response post, let me take a moment and address one of the key points being discussed: the “arbitrary” categorization/labeling of the guys in your dah. Since I created those labels in the first place.

I can see how the categories can be construed as a way to trivialize the complexity of connections and fit guys into neat, little boxes. I TOTALLY GET why this idea freaks guys out – god forbid you end up “stuck” as the Ego Booster?? And I promise, I am the last one to argue that complexity is bad. I’m the queen of complex, ambiguous interactions (ask Becky!).

But here’s the point. When you go around asking women about their love lives, many (many, many) of them initially tell you that they don’t have a love life (no dates, no professions of love, etc). Then you tell them about Dating & Hookup, and some of them realize that they have one (and hence, that they have a love life), and some of them STILL go, oh, that sounds like fun, but I don’t think I have one. I’m alone. Dateless. Loveless. Love life-less.

And THEN, you start going through the categories. And the girl goes, hey wait, I have that guy! Yeah, I know that guy! I don’t have that guy anymore, but I did for the past 8 months! Oh man, I haven’t talked to that guy in ages, maybe I should email him, he was so fun!

My goal is to make women feel good (better) about their love lives, in an authentic, constructive way. And if one of the major points of Dating & Hookup is to open our minds and embrace complexity and ambiguity and realize that our love lives are MUCH MORE EXPANSIVE AND VIBRANT than we think, then thinking along the lines of the labels actually HELPS us to see all the guys – and connections – that we might be missing. No one is “stuck” in a box – I constantly hear stories about all sorts of Ego Boosters and Career Boosters and Accessories who end up becoming Boyfriend Prospects or Hot Sex Prospects with a little time and effort and luck and connection. Yet without Dating & Hookup, some of those guys might not have even had a chance, because the girl wouldn’t have been thinking of them as a viable romantic prospect. But because she opened up her mind, and expanded her definition of “my love life,” and realized that these sometimes-peripheral guys may MEAN something to her or help her to LEARN something about herself, that connection was explored. The labels make the whole process a little more organized and easier to wrap our minds around.

Basically, the labels put just enough order on our messy, ambiguous, complex relationships for us to SEE them and actually decide if we want to explore them further. And because the labels aren’t set in stone, evolving within them is EASY. Don’t want to be an Ego Booster? Make a move. Sick of being an Accessory? Push for some one-on-one time. Career Booster not good enough for you? Make plans outside of the office.

That is going to be MUCH more productive than simply worrying about it, telling yourself that women are selfish, manipulative, engorged insects, and feeling somewhat justified when you (unwillingly) go home alone at the end of the night.

Jess

Thanks! “My love’s right on time…and it’s timeless…”

Had to be done.

Jess

I confirm all!

That Reddit chain is FASCINATING. Check it out, folks.

Jess

This is a great read – and, to singlegal’s point above, hopefully inspiring to some of those girls who are wondering if there might be a more committed, long lasting relationship/marriage on the other end of their dah. Yes! And I can only imagine that some of your experiences with the guys in your ‘old school’ dah have contributed to the great romances that you write about…

You also touched on something that I think about a lot – the fact that, thanks to technology and our new-ish ability to widen our circles to include people who may not be in our immediate and convenient vicinity, our whole lives have sort of been taken over by dahs. Many of us now have our romantic dah of guys, but also our professional dah, our friend dah, our hobby dah (if you play sports, or music or write or cook, etc), your “author dah,” as you call it. It seems like we no longer expect one or two people to be EVERYTHING to us, so are more likely to spread out our attachments and energy and expectations among a wider net of people. Also, we’re all so busy that it can be tough for US to be someone else’s everything! So maybe best for everyone that we’re all part of wider social networks – or “dahs” – these days.

Would love to hear if you also think this is the case!

Jess

I vote date! Double date, even! That’s a lot of paying.

(it’s a miracle! kidding…sort of…)

Jess

Agreed! I absolutely think that level is Dating & Hookup. But I don’t think anyone can argue that just because Dating & Hookup exists, that means SJP’s DON’T exist.

Dating & Hookup isn’t meant to be a justification for all the players out there to keep doing their thing! When Dating & Hookup is done right (again, more on that in my response to Becky), there’s a difference – and fewer people are at risk of getting unnecessarily hurt in the process.

Jess

Scarlett absolutely had a dah! Good call.

I’ve obviously heard the argument that having a dah justifies us being players and using men as well, and as I’ll say over and over again, it’s a thin line. But one of the major distinctions in my mind? To put it bluntly – most women aren’t hooking up with the majority of their dah. Recognizing that you have a Career Booster – some guy who listens to you gripe about your boss, in part because you’re an attractive woman – or giving some credit to your continuing dynamic with your Ex-Boyfriend Who’s Still Around, is IN PRACTICE very different from dating or sleeping with or purposefully leading on guys just for the sake of attention or the fulfillment of your physical needs.

Ultimately, guys and girls are going to look at Dating & Hookup from different starting points (guys from more of a mentality where it’s accepted or expected for them to be full-out players, and girls from a place of everyone pressuring them to find a boyfriend/husband). This is why I think we need to meet in the middle! Many guys need to be willing to invest MORE, and many women need to be willing to invest a tiny bit LESS – at least in the beginning.

But more on this in my response to Becky

Jess

So do I! Especially when I’m in a phase where I don’t actually want to be in a relationship. Which is pretty often.

That said, I’m always aware of when I’m not looking for something serious, and open and honest about it. And you just called yourself “a huge commitment-phobe,” so I’m guessing that you’re pretty self-aware too! I think this is what’s lacking in SJP’s – a sense of honesty and awareness about what they want. So they pretend/convince themselves that they want everything, and confuse (and often hurt?) their romantic prospects in the process.

Whether there’s a “need” for these guys…I don’t know! But they’re certainly fun and fascinating, if you’re able to be realistic about what they’re really offering…

Jess

Fair enough, supertommy! As with everything else in the post-dating world, the line between having a dah and being an SJP is super ambiguous, and not as clear-cut as we’d like. Surprise surprise.

If I had to summarize what an SJP is – and hopefully clarify it a bit? – I would say that SJP’s are a new breed of players who (non-)date, hang out, lead on, and hook up with TONS of girls/guys, but who choose to justify their promiscuity and lack of emotional attachment with passionate claims about some epic love that they’re trying to find. They look and act like traditional players (always going through one person after another, rarely getting attached to anyone, constantly being surrounded by girls/guys, skillfully playing games), but they believe that they’re more mature and evolved than other players because they can utter the phrase ‘soulmate’ without vomiting. They never say, “Hey, I’m young and having fun, I’m just not ready to want something serious yet!” Instead you get, “I’m looking for the love of my life, but I haven’t met her yet. That’s why I’ve slept with three girls this week. To find my wife.”

As to what a player is? I think of players as guys/girls who emotionally manipulate their prospects and pretend to care more than they do, in order to attain some goal that’s NOT love or commitment. Maybe it’s sex, maybe it’s an ego boost, maybe it’s the power they feel when someone falls for them. But it’s all a game, and instead of acting in a genuine, exploratory way, they act as they think they need to, in order to get what they want. And then once they get it, they’re done with you.

But really, who defines anything better than urban dictionary? https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=player

Jess

I’m over-the-moon excited about this! Am I allowed to say that I trust your Mom’s judgment on guys over yours? Oh wait. I just did.